Crossfire Wiki

Some things to keep in mind on the table:

• Second pass has been done, but I am sure further adjustments are needed.
• The TOTAL values for each class is really just an advisory - in practical terms, some skills are much more valuable than others, so the balance of the class as a whole is what is needed, and that may or may not correspond to actual total costs of skill points. However, just as a starting point, I tried to make all the values the same - might as well start with something that is at least somewhat balanced.
• With the above in mind, one can figure out what level a character would need to be to max at all skills - it is TOTAL * 100 (max level) / AP per level. If AP per level is 20, then for most classes, it would be level 805 before they could max everything out (note that if AP are available through quests and other methods, this would be faster). Note that I do not see it as in intention for a single character to maximize every skill - while possible, the player is probably better off playing multiple characters. To maximize every skill assuming a best cast scenario (choose classes with 3 point cost, and have no overlap), it would still be 375 total character levels.
• On my other page, I had mentioned that skill levels could be up to character level * 2. I'm not 100% sure that is good - it means that at level 50, a character is no longer improving his core skills, and is instead now focusing on other secondary skills. But the counter to that is that if skill level is limited to character level, then starting at level one, a character is likely to be spending points on secondary skills because there is nothing better to spend it on.
• Given the costs below, I'm thinking 20 AP/level may be about right. That allows a character to keep 3+ 3 point skills at maximum level (6 points/skill, 3 skills = 18 points, with 2 points left over). For a mage, this means they could keep one spell skill maximum, and the other 3 at current level, but more than likely, they might focus on 2 skills, put some points in dodge.
• One of the principle ideas behind this is that it gives the players choices and they have to make decisions. However, that only holds true so long as AP are limited - if you get 100 AP/level, one then has pretty much enough points to max out all your class skills, so no real decision there.
• Some of the basis on cost was to make those decisions a little harder - cheapest skill be 3, most expensive being 9, with most in between. A knight can increase spellcasting skills - it is costly, almost 3 times as much as their weapon skills, but if 20 AP/level is the number chosen, if they chose to increase nothing else, they could increase a wizard skill by 2 levels - that might be worth it. If the costs were more widely varied - say cheap skills were 1, and expensive skills 10, than with a 10:1 ratio, any improvement of other skills is much less likely to happen (with cheap skills being 1, the AP/level would also be lower)
• One thing that I did do is to make sure that for every skill, there is at least one class that gets it at a cost of 3. It would be nice if more of the skills had a wider distribution between classes. For example, for most of the mage skills, a class either knows it and get it at a cost of of 3, 4, or 5, or they don't, and the cost is 8 or 9. Having some classes get it at 6 or 7 makes it an OK skill for the class.
• The table below basically represents current skills in the game. There is room for new skills - for example, a skill for each attribute with a high cost which basically increases that attribute one point. There could also be skills for resistances, skills to just get more HP, etc. Most of these would really be more high level skills - only after the character has maxed out most of their preferred skills would it be worthwhile to increase those.
• Note that skills for races still need to be done, but that is a simpler table, since the number of skills per race is lot lower, and only the cost for specific skills they grant at creation time really need to be recorded. The costs for all skills is needed on this table because one has to know how much it would cost that fighter to learn fire magic if they learn it at some point.
• One thought is whether skill scrolls should still exist, or should characters have access to improve all skills when starting out, but given the costs, some of these are effectively never going to get improved.
• As a data point - with 25 skills and 161 points per class, a character that was completely equal in all skills would have each skill cost 6.44. Even if the character was given a benefit and every skill was just 6, I think that would not be a very good class to play - it would only be worthwhile for real long term.
• Using point totals as a guideline (or allow custom characters) has to be carefully done. In a min/max approach, a character could have 11 skills at cost 3, and 14 at cost 9 with a 159 total. One would easily choose the best skills and have a class far better than any presented below, since not all skills are equal.

The table below represents the bonus/penalty a race gets for different skills. In the old system, the only thing that was applied is if a race would get a skill or not, but much more can be done. I had initially thought of giving the races specific skills with specific costs, but that either becomes really powerful if the skill is a low cost, or not really any difference at all if the skill is a moderate or high cost.

Using modifiers is much more interesting - now the modifiers do make it such that some races are ideally suited for different classes, but it was that way before given stat modifiers. That doesn't really change, but I've tried to put some interesting things into the mix - dwarves get a bonus for earth magic (being underground, makes sense to me) - thus, a dwarf can be the one race that can learn earth magic more easily than any other race. Dwarves, based on bonus stats, are also not great spellcasters, but I think that adds some interesting possibilities - now it may be that no one will ever take them.

Using modifiers also changes balance around a little. Elves get a -1 bonus for missile weapons - if you are an elf mage, it is still really costly to improve your missile weapon. Elf warrior could could be more interesting.

For the most part, I've used the existing race descriptions (and what skills they get) to decide where bonuses go. For all races, the net is 0, but that could change.

One thing to note is that a fair amount of skills have at least one race that gets a bonus (exception here is most of the weapon skills as nothing really popped out as this race should be really good with axes, etc). But there is also no race which gets a bonus to air magic, but several with fire.

Note on penalties: Giving a race penalty for a skill they can not use really isn't a penalty. And example here would be the Dragon and armor skill. One could give the dragon some bonus for spellcasting, and offset that with a bonus to armor - but since they can not wear armor in the first place, they would never have increased that skill under normal play, so putting a penalty there is really meaningless. Now players are going to pick and choose best race/class combos (and just based on bonuses, those clearly exist), but no point in adding in meaningless penalties.

Notes on the above:

• Human: They do not have any bonus listed - in the old system, they got a bonus skill. What I am thinking is this new system is they get 1 bonus AP point/level. In a sense, that means that a skill has a bonus. This isn't quite true, because for characters that are focusing on a skill, they are likely to increase it 2 skill levels each character level (until maxed out), so if they have a -1, they are effectively saving 2 AP per level.
• Dragon: In old system, they started with pyromancy - they will certainly start with spellcasting skills, but don't get any bonus. One thing I do notice is that under the costs for the classes, there is no clear choice for class for a dragon race character - there are some classes with good unarmed combat (claws), and others with good spellcasting, but none that are good with both. But maybe this is more balanced. It might be fair to give dragon some bonus to unarmed combat.
• Quetzalcoatl: This also has not bonus or penalties. This is a fairly specialized race, so perhaps does not need them - it isn't really clear from description where/what their skill affinities would be.
• Troll: Based on the race, I just feel that he should get a penalty to persuasion, but where to give bonus? I figure blunt - trolls are primitive, and nothing gets more primitive than a club. IMO, bonus to weapon skills is greater than a penalty to persuasion, which is another reason I chose blunt, as clubs, maces, hammers, etc, are not the best weapons right now.
• Wraith: Like several above, no bonus/penalty, and not really clear where those should be. Perhaps a bonus to dodge (being semi incoporeal?) and penalties to several of the crafting skills (harder to do that if semi incorporeal?)

• Missile Weapon is as is now - ability to use bows, crossbows, slings
• Sword covers both 1 handed and 2 handed swords, as well as daggers, knives. Perhaps it is better called blades.
• Axe covers both 1 and 2 handed axes.
• Blunt is just a general term for maces, hammers, clubs, etc.
• Spear covers spears and all polearms. It should also include ability to throw spears
• Unarmed Combat mixes karate, punching, wrestling, flame touch, etc, all into one.
• Armor reduces penalties associated with armor - anyone can wear armor, but a person with an armor skill gets reduced penalties.
• Dodge is a new skill which represents ability to avoid blows.
• Air, Fire, Water, Earth Magic represent a refactoring of magic skills - I think those are more balanced.
• Divine Magic represents cleric spells - it is a renaming of praying.
• Traps is ability to find/remove/create traps.
• Thievery is combination of lockpicking, hiding, and stealing.
• Persausion mixes singing, oratory and bargaining. This lets one calm hostile monsters, and also make friendly calm monsters. Better persuasion gets better shop prices. I decided to make this one skill for all three so that it has enough value - bargaining by itself (only power is cheaper prices) would like be a skill not worth improving, and even just singing and oratory as a single skill is I am not sure worth while enough - I'm hoping my making this skill three things, people would find greater value. Also, if at some point NPC reactions are added (based on NPC like/dislike of player determines type of information), this skill could also be used for that.
• Acrobatics mixes jumping & climbing. Jumping lets one skip over spaces (potentially avoiding traps), climbing reduces penalties in mountainous terrain.
• Literacy is as it is now - this lets one read non magic material, and lets one create scrolls and identify them. Inscription becomes part of this skill.
• Weaponsmith breaks apart the current smithery which includes everything - weaponsmith identifies creates just weapons
• Armorer (different than armor) is ability to identify and make armor.
• Jeweler is ability to identify and make rings and necklaces
• Alchemy is ability to identify and make potions and dusts.
• Bowyer is ability to identify and make missile weapons (bows, arrows, etc)
• Thaumaturgy is ability to identify and make horns, wands, and rods.
• Woodsman is identify and creation of food, and ability to avoid some penalties of the forests. Harvesting moves into this.

Notes on crafting skills: Most crafting skills have skills that are related to the actual use of that item. For example, weaponsmith and swords, and bowyer and missile weapons. What may be reasonable to do is have the idea of related skills and bonuses. For example, if the character is level 50 with swords, they know a lot about them, so should be better able to identify and craft them. Perhaps half of the skill level for actual use of the item gets applied to the creation skill, but the bonus can not exceed the actual skill itself. Note also that for some skills, the actual use skill may be more specific than the general skill - while weaponsmith covers all weapons, the axe skill would be used as a bonus against axes, etc.

For example, a character is level 50 in swords, level 20 in weaponsmith. Half of 50 is 25, but that exceeds the weaponsmith skill of 20, so the bonus is 20, or overall level 40 in that skill. This character is level 10 in axes, and decides to make an axe. Half of 10 is 5, which is less than 20, so is effectively level 25 for making axes.

One problem here is that this still requires a fair amount of skill in the crafting skill to get a bonus - perhaps this bonus should be adjusted based on what is being done. For example, a character that is really good and swords probably knows a lot about them, so should be good about identifying them, but may know nothing about making them. So perhaps the bonus only applies towards identification (with a more generous cap), and not towards creation.

Following is description of different classes and notes. I've written new descriptions with the idea that these could replace the existing ones. The descriptions are in italics.

Some general thoughts: For classes which are restricted, rather than outright ban skill use, perhaps make the cost prohibitive - eg, 100 AP/level would effectively mean a monk would never learn weapons.

Another thought on skills is perhaps that skills start at level 0, and a skill at level 0 can not be used. Thus, some classes may start or even learn certain skills, but they are still at level 0, and until some AP is spent on it, it is not usable. This probably really makes sense in terms of starting characters. For example, if a first level character gets 10 AP to spend, yet all their skills are already level 1, he is effectively a level up on all skills after spending those points.

Many of these descriptions need to be reworked. In the old system, a class either had a skill or not. In the new system, this is much more gray - characters may not start with all the skills, but even if they do learn new ones, the cost may be very high. In the descriptions below, I've used the terms about how good the character is with the skill, but that isn't really accurate - how good the character will be depends on how they spend their AP. How easy/hard it is to advance things is a more accurate description, but using the terms easy/hard to learn gets somewhat repetitive. I suspect the real answer will be to display these actual costs during character creation time.

• Monk: Note that monks will get special ability of meditation, and detect magic/curse. In the Monastery, they believed in mental discipline and peace through physical training, meditation, and, to a lesser extent, religious devotion. Your mental equilibrium requires you to forego the use of weapons, but your physical training in karate means you're not helpless. Your physical training covers both the ability to effectively dodge blows as well as wear armor, depending on what works best in the circumstance. Your affinity for learning magic is poor, and limited exposure to the outside world has limited your ability to make and identify most types of objects. Your constant studying in the monastery has exposed you to many books and other writings, so your ability to ready is quite good, but being deep in thought for so much of the day have left your conversational skills lacking.

• Paladin: I see paladins as a mix between cleric and fighters. Since both are powerful, this combination is not as good as a pure form of either one. You are a militant priest - you have been taught to use armor and weapons, and your faith provides you with spells, but this split effort means learning these is not as easy as those whose sole focus is one or the other. Missile weapons has suffered more, as you prefer to smite distant enemies with your spells. Your ability to identify and make most items is limited - there was always someone else to take care of those tasks during your training. Magic and thievery are areas you have never studied, but your tongue is sharp and most folks see paladins in a favorable light.

• Priest: Priest is as now - main focus on priest spells, but still OK at fighting. As a priest, you've learned an intense devotion to your god, and you've learned how to channel the energies your god vouchsafes to his devotees. Your exposure to weapons is limited, and you are only really good with maces and hammers. Your training has taught you to be able to read and write fairly well. Giving sermons and trying to convert people have sharpened your skills of persuasion, and who doesn't like a priest? The concepts of elemental magic are beyond your comprehesion.

• Ninja: The ninja is sort of an odd mix - in this context, I am making it somewhat of a thief/fighter/monk combo. As a member of the secret society of the Ninja, you've been taught archery, the use of swords, and also the art of combat without weapons. Your style of combat, leans very much toward the sneak attack, so you've been taught how to be inconspicuous and to appear in places you're not expected. Your ability to use armor is poor, as you prefer to dodge the blows. Your ability to learn magic, both elemental and divine. As a person who is not supposed to be seen or heard, your dealings with others is limited. You have had limited exposure in identifying or making most types of items.

• Thief: Thieves are the true experts at stealth - no other class gets the thief like abilities at such a low cost. They also get a fairly low cost persuasion skill, representing their ability to get best prices. Trained to be a thief from a young age, you've learned to steal and have and easier time than most getting the best prices for your goods. You're fairly good with the sword and bow; this being advisable to someone who is likely to have acrimonious disagreements about the ownership of valuable objects. Your training in other weapons and unarmed combat is not so good. You've had no time for either religious devotion or the study of magecraft. Your nimbleness to avoid blows has kept you alive to this point.

• Barbarian: I see barbarians as a somewhat specialized fighter - the weapon skills they have got, they are very good at, but don't get all of them at a low cost. A big difference is that a barbarian has poor armor skill but good dodge - so this is a different focus than the knight. Growing up in the howling wilderness, you've had no chance to pursue anything remotely intellectual, let alone learn your letters! It's amazing you ever thought of leaving your hovel and going somewhere else, you're so ignorant. But now you have. You find that you're a lot tougher and stronger than these cityfolk, and you know how to get around in rough terrain. You've learned archery in order to fill your cookpot, and your skill with an axe is reknown. Your other weapon skills are not quite so good. You have no affinity for magic. You are uncomfortable in armor, having never come across any in the wilderness. Your remote upbringing has resulted in your to identify what is safe to eat. What you call talk, others here as just grunts, resulting in most people not understanding you, compounded by the fact that most folks you run into have different ideas on how you should smell.

• Mage: The Mage class here is a generalist mage - they get all the elemental skills are a fairly low cost, but the elemental mage (described later), gets one skill at a lower cost, other at same, and one at higher. Your upbringing has been that as a mage apprentice - now is your time to go into the world. You have been exposed equally well to the four elemental magic types. Your training has not included weapons, and even your ability to dodge blows is just average. However, growing up an apprentice has taught you much about making magic items, and with the copious amount of reading you have done, you are now quite good at it.

• Swashbuckler: This is another fighter/thief hybrid, like the ninja. I don't really think there is place for two of these - they are largely the same except for some minor skill differences, and I don't think that really warrants having two fairly similar classes. I'd personally be in favor of getting rid of Ninja - most all of the other classes have the more traditional European basis - and the game itself does (armor and weapons is largely European). I have tweaked this one a bit to get water magic at an OK price, which may make it different enough. Shipboard most of your life, you've learned good balance and agility, and you've also become strong and hardy. Because of occasional oarswork, you and your shipmates have an admirable command of rhythm, and you can sing well. You've learned to make the most of your time in port: after passing out drunk in a bar and waking to find yourself short your pay, you've found ways to acquire new capital, or at the very least, talk someone into helping you out of your fix. On numerous occasions, you've taken up arms and bow in defense of your ship, so you're facile with weapons. You have had little chance to learn the ways of the gods or magic, but being on the water all the time has resulted in you having some affinity for that element. Fire, being a great enemy of ships, has been an element you have always be wary of. Wearing armor is foreign to you - too easy to drown while wearing armor if you fall overboard. Your frequent handling of belaying pins has taught you to be quite proficient with blunt items - clubs and pins always being sailors favorites as they float, but you have had good exposure to all weapons.

• Warlock: Warlock is a mage/fighter mix - not as good as either of those. You've divided your time between learning magic and learning weapons, but have totally disregarded religious devotion. You're physically stronger and hardier because of your training, and you know the use of weapons and bows. However, this split focus comes at a cost, and you find it harder to learn both magic and weapon usage than those who focus solely on one or the other. This split focus has also left very little time to learn about identifying and crafting items, and you find those tasks quite difficult.

• Knight: This was the warrior class. I renamed it because this class is the one that wears a lot of armor and goes in and whacks things - I think knight is a better representation of that. Warrior is very generic, and there are many warriors which really did not wear armor. As a knight, your training with weapons and armor is second to none. This singular focus has resulted in poor understanding of the magical and religious arts. Since you are seldom out of your armor, you have spent little time working on skills which are difficult to do while wearing armor. Your frequent exposure to weapons and armors has resulted in a great affinity to identify and craft such items - as a knight, one never knows when you might need something fixed up.

• Alchemist: This gets removed - all this would really be is a mage class with perhaps a little worse spellcasting skills and a better alchemy skill - that is not really different enough I don't think to warrant a class on its own. I will also note that on first pass, there are not any classes which get all the item identification/creation skills at a low cost and other skills at a high cost - that is because the basis of crossfire is an adventuring game, and I don't think such a class would end up being viable.

• Devotee: This is a mage/cleric mix - once again, not a a good as the ones by themselves. You have split your time focusing on your god as well as the elemental powers. As such, no one has such a complete control of both elemental and divine magic that you do. The downside is this focus has left very little time to focus on any other training. You are well read, and somewhat familiar with magical rings, wands and potions. Your main way to avoid damage is by dodging blows, but ideally you will blast foes with spells before they get close enough to hit you with their weapons.

• Evoker/Sorcerer/Summoner/Wizard: These get removed, as they were just classes which focused on the old skills of the matching name. They are replaced by the Elemental Wizard, described below.

• Elemental Wizard: There is a one of these for each element, eg, Fire Elemental Wizard, Water Elemental Wizard, but they are all fundamentally the same. They get one elemental at a cheaper cost, the two neutral elements at a good cost, and the opposing element at a higher cost. For example, the fire wizard gets fire magic at 3, earth/air and 4, and water at 5. These total costs are the same as the mage, but this lets this class focus more on a certain area. The sample text describes a fire wizard. You have focused your magical arts on harnessing the powers of fire. You are still quite good and controller the powers of earth and air, but you lack some affinity to that of water. You have only limited weapon skills, picking up the occasional club, and wearing armor interferes with your magic, so you instead dodge blows that come at you. You have a good skill at identify and making wands, horns, rings and potions.